I am always trying to sum up multisense realism in a simple way, as I think it ultimately is pretty simple, but it is hard to put it simply because it requires that we overturn some core assumptions about how we look at the self and the universe.
It is my conjecture that realism, matter, and public events are derived from a universal foundation which is sensory rather than logical. Reality is the dream of eternity made temporarily public, not a collection of objects making temporary illusions.
I consider my model to be neither dualist nor monist, but an “Oroboran” monism, meaning that physics itself is the capacity for sensory experience and discernment and that it is involuted in a reflexive, “umbilical” relation to itself. The idea is that experience and matter are the private and public ranges of physical phenomena. The involution (like a Klein bottle or Möbius strip) refers to the orthogonal or perpendicular juxtaposition between sensorimotive-based private experience and spacetime-based public realism.
If we begin with this diagram which I have pilfered from memeengine:
and then progress, like those schizophrenic cat portraits, into the mind bending rabbit hole that is Multisense Realism…

Here, I am trying to introduce the notion of a continuum between the three ‘ism’s above, to indicate that the cosmos supports all three inherently because it is that juxtaposition/symmetry which is actually more primary than any of them. Not the symmetry itself – which is more of a mathematical relation that is somewhat abstract, but the capacity to detect and respond to patterns like symmetry – the capacity to sense and participate in the universe. What I wound up with was more of a yin yang taijutsu arrangement which maybe hints at an East side where experience is purely subjective, a West side which is all representations of what is presumed purely objective, and a midrange which is about perception as a body in the world of comparably scaled bodies.
Not content with that, I went on to try to get more of the flavor of it with nested scale bodies in a Cartesian grid of blue vector arrows representing energy and function (the disowned idealism of the West haunts the machine as ‘energy’ and ‘information’). On the East side, there is the solipsistic fisheye distortion which is all cluttered up with my conceptions of sub-personal, super-personal, and the arrow of motive power.
Wrapping this mess up, I put the atomic dots where they belong, on the inside surface of the experiential bubble of the Absolute. Make sense? Haha.
In Multisense Realism, all of physics is understood to relate to the capacity to discern between public and private views of phenomena. Public physics appears to us as ‘matter and energy’ on the outside and ‘perception and participation’ on the inside. The gap which makes this involution or twist possible is the modulation between the presence and absence or sensory presence, with the absence being what is called entropy or spacetime (which become essentially the same thing under this model of physics). To make things more confusing, this modulation of entropy and sensitivity is nested within many layers of itself, as a fractal. A cell encapsulates a world of molecular interaction. An organ encapsulates a world of cells, etc.
What started as an observation about the common positions that people seem to take within philosophy of mind debates became a hypothesis about the continuum of public and private sense experience, a re-interpretation of light, cosmology, consciousness, and the introduction of new concepts like significance and solitropy.
Here are a few diagrams to try to capture the overall picture of how all major features of the cosmos can smoothly fit together.
(This last diagram shamelessly stolen and modified from a paper called Natural World Physical, Brain Operational,and Mind Phenomenal Space-Time.)
I suppose that the key insight is that rather than an ideal or material primitive which all things share, it is the capacity to sense (to discern and participate) which is irreducible and universal. Through this framework which highlights the symmetric qualities of public and private, cardinal and ordinal, generic and proprietary, spatial and experiential, etc, the big picture comes into focus as a flexible, self-involuting experience of experiences. Sense is the authentic presentation in which we participate directly, within which indirect experiences are re-presented as public bodies within bodies.
Multisense Realism is a set of ideas about how consciousness can be integrated with the physical universe. It is rooted in a consideration of what is ultimately necessary for a universe such as our own to exist, without disqualifying subjectivity. If we acknowledge from the start that all subjective experiences are by definition phenomena which are part of the cosmos, then we can dispense with the prejudice of contemporary approaches which rely on an assumption of ‘illusions’. In reducing the universe to basic concepts such as function, substance, and experience, it appears that beneath any possible function or substance there must be a capacity for discernment and experience of any functions or substances. When compared with the other two possibilities – of a universe of substance which gives rise to experiential functions arbitrarily, or a universe of functions which gives rise to substances and experiences superfluously. In both cases, it appears that there is no plausible explanation for why either substance or function should generate any sort of experience. The remaining possibility is that the universe we live in is fundamentally based on experience (aka sense, or perception-particpation) rather than substances or functions.
Looking at sense in this new way, as a universal version of ordinary afferent and efferent experience, a new view of the universe is revealed. In this view, both ‘information’ and matter are derived from more fundamental values of generating sensation and significance. This then, is an attempt to help others who may be interested in understanding the surprisingly simple (though convoluted to discuss) relations between ordinary awareness, matter, energy, time, and space.
Some have said that it is easier to understand after they have heard me explain it:
** Video Interview **
A couple of different informal views here. Above, the categories of Root and Meta are mingled with Sub-Super and Hyper-Hypo to illustrate some conjectures about the nature of how form and content are nested. The bright vs subdued color panels emphasize that the universality of Realism, i.e. public impersonal worlds stacked within each other by material size, are also narrow in another sense. Although the specificity of the public is precise (molecular configurations are exact, etc), the differences overall are generic and limited to quantitative descriptions, positions, shapes, functional relations as in gears and teeth.
Below, in the shoelace causality model, the same kinds of levels and symmetries are expressed in a more linear fashion, indicating the depth of the ontological shift.
On the left side (or West end) are the levels of organization associated with material bodies, from micro to mega. On the East side, by making it negative, wavy, and diagonal, I tried to emphasize that the juxtaposition between East and West is truly orthogonal (or orthomodular) and not simply different. Where the Western view promises local certainty with interlocking gears of mechanism, the Eastern view submerges certainty into holistic, idiopathic acausality which commands from eternity.
Following is a visual survey of popular consciousness theories to highlight the similarity and difference between multisense realism and established approaches.
Multisense Realism explores sense as a neutral monism rooted in reflexively derived relativism (verses). Sense is conceived of as the fundamental capacity for derived capacities, aka, the Uni in Universe.
The primary juxtaposition of ‘verses’ in the universe are proposed as:
1) Multisense (Private physics)
Qualitative presentation: Private sensory-perception and motive-participation
Like the ordinary awareness which we have as human beings, our afferent dispositions and their expression as efferent changes in position can be scaled out to the level of microcosm and astronomical macrocosm. All forces and field dynamics can be flipped around to an intersubjective orientation of tension and release rather than interobjective automatism.
2) Realism (Public physics)
Quantitative representation: Public bodies and objective perspectives solidify and mechanize experience. The need for realism arises as a kind of accounting schema or political stabilizer among experiences. Matter and energy are presentations within our sense experience, but ultimately they are representations of other sense experiences. Objectivity is a secondary verse but what it lacks in primordial authenticity it makes up for through the power of modulation by proximity: metered extension.


Multisense Syzygy:
Phenomenology and realism are not merely a dualism of separate or unrelated ‘substances’, they are the two opposite expressions of sense, and they are opposite in every conceivable way. What they share is their opposition to each other – their orthogonality, which reveals the sense that gives rise to their distinction, and to distinction itself.

Multisense Realism asserts that realism, including matter and mind, arises as a multiplicity of sense participation. Sense, as the receptive modality and participation as the active modality are two aspects of the same underlying universal primitive, the inherent potential for meta juxtaposition of self/non-self which is also intentionally referred to as ‘sense’.
The conjecture is that these self-juxtapositions, weave qualitatively rich channels of sense which make sense themselves as a continuum or spectrum between interior and exterior realism. This realism has been addressed historically as dualism of extremes in philosophy, generally with the logic of one side arguing to subsume the other, so that materialism seeks to invalidate interior realism (reducing consciousness to mechanism) and idealism seeks to disqualify exterior realism (reducing physics to solipsism).
Multisense Realism takes this dualistic opposition in philosophical thought to be a non-coincidental revelation of the nature of consciousness and cosmos itself as a continuum of potential sense channels of realism, ranging from literally nested layers of forms, structures, and bodies in space to figuratively layered experiences of feelings, meanings, and perceptions through time.
This multisense continuum is conceived as a range which can be pinched and prodded, so that applying any philosophical, scientific, or religious sense to any part of it amounts to an instructive yet unreal distortion to the whole. Even our ordinary waking human consciousness is an assertion of prejudice which manipulates the entire range of possible truths. To the typical person buying fish in the supermarket, the profound descriptions of reality of the quantum mechanical microcosm or the macrocosmic inflation of meditative transcendence seem distant and irrelevant fantasy. Likewise, to the physicist or the zen master, the reality of buying groceries is De-emphasized.
The profound edges of the continuum then (the extremely mathematical-physical-exterior and the extremely anthropomorphic-animistic-subjective) are as opposed to each other as they are united in their opposition against the naturalistic (or ‘pedestrian’) center of the continuum. Realism, in turn, is defined by its sequestering against the unrealism of profound theory. This is a shorthand map of how cosmos and consciousness relate – an informal compass which quantifies perspectives of universal qualities.
The unstated implication of the multisense continuum is that every range of sense categories is a presentation in its own right as well as a representation of all of the other sense categories, but in a diminished or even inverted way. Just as the reality of the grocery store minimizes the reality of the profound, all experiences manifest and define themselves in sensible relation to all other experience. True believers in external realism necessarily and compulsively casts spirituality as solipsistic fantasy, while interior realism devotees are compelled to characterize science as misguided and blind materialism.
This conjecture ultimately extends to a re-interpretation of physics which preserves the truth of experimental observations, but challenges fundamental definitions of force, field, energy, matter, time and space. External realities and internal realities are seen to be symmetric in some sense, disjunct in others, so that human or anthropological consciousness has developed through an interior evolution of sense rather than a purely exterior evolution of physical mechanism, deepening gradually and suddenly (a punctuated equilibrium) from ancestral forms; perhaps mammalian feeling, animal perception, biological awareness, chemical sensitivity, and physical detection-response. This means that the function of a human brain may not be transferable to inorganic structures such as contemporary data processing equipment. It is certainly possible to extend human consciousness with technology, but the position advocated here is that human consciousness, or indeed any other kind of evolved awareness cannot be reversed engineered to physical mechanism or substituted entirely. It is a different thing to have a bionic leg than it is to have a bionic brain. If we replace the brain, we replace the person.
Our assumption of cosmologically primitive forces, fields, time and space are reinterpreted to be analytical constructs rather than structurally real substances. All are the consequences of direct perception and participation (or sense and motive) experienced privately through time, or third person indirect perceptions of public matter and ‘energy’ (spatial generic rather than temporal proprietary perspective)
A photon, for example, may be a unit of sensitivity within the instrument of detection to an external change in another material condition rather than a free standing particle-wave in space. What we are looking at with subatomic particles may in fact be the common sense through which the abstractions of space and time are generated. Matter is a semiotic vocabulary of bottom-level event relation rather than an independent ‘stuff’ so that human consciousness is an example of high-level poetry and drama for which the low level language was developed. Quarks could be understood more like atomic level doorbells – chords played as chimes by one ensemble in the presence of another visiting ensemble.
Materialism and Idealism: Making Sense of Consciousness
Podcast from June 12, 2012.
Earlier interview on psychtalkradio.com – May 30, 2012 My radio debut talking about consciousness with Jose Drost-Lopez. I get into some of the ideas of Multisense Realism.
Multisense Realism began as a framework to model conflicting approaches to Philosophy of Mind, but evolved into a new interpretation of mind/body dualism and the Hard problem of consciousness. By seeing the human experience of mind and body as a special case of a deeper, more universal principle of interior and exterior forms of sense, Multisense Realism reinterprets some of the fundamentals of physics and cosmology.
In Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, prisoners have only shadows on the wall to see as their whole reality and the philosopher who escapes and discovers the real world outside returns to the cave later only to find that he and his strange reports are unwelcome.
The way that I think of it, physics turns the allegory on its head. The physicist takes us inside of Plato’s Cave. He tells us that when we leave the cave what we see must be an illusion, since shadows exist both inside and outside the cave, but the bright colors and 3-D forms are exposed as unreal by the laboratory purity of the cave.
The cave allows us to detect and understand things in a more controlled and unbiased way, without all of the confusing sounds and colors. Those things that we seem to ‘see’ ‘outside’ are merely epiphenomena and the only true reality is in the interplay of shadows. Mathematical forms rendered to us without confusion and sentiment.
This would be making a case for naive realism though – which I don’t want to do. To get at the Multisense Realism position I would extend this inverted allegory so that we find that if we listen to the physicist, it turns out that the shadows do in fact make a sense of their own, which extend our understanding far beyond the colors outside.
The world inside the cave is good and real too, just in a very different way. In fact, the shadows tell us everything about what we *are not*. What we think is the inside of the cave is really just another kind of self turned inside out, and the outside of ourselves is just the inside of someone else’s cave.
Both caves are inside and outside of each other, and everything in the entire universe is made of this caving-uncaving anomalous symmetry (anomalous since the inside is ‘vertical’: infinitely personal, temporal, and signifying; self-like, while the outside is ‘horizontal’: infinitely impersonal, spatial, and generic; cavelike.)
In a nutshell:
- Experience of the universe will seem to support and encourage both spiritual and material perspectives, even though they both appear to present mutually exclusive sets of ultimate truths. Reason requires belief in disbelief and faith requires disbelief in disbelief. In between reason and faith is reality, but neither reason without faith nor faith without reason can make sense of everything. The insistence that it can is ultimately a bias that tends to become crazy and dangerous if acted upon in real life as if it were the whole truth.
- All of the shortcomings of religion and science can be accounted for by each side mistaking objects for subjects and subjects for objects.
- We can fix this by looking at how we look at the universe, so that we take our own experience more literally and physical existence more figuratively. Photons become nothing but atomic experiences. Consciousness becomes the physical inertia of events which tie body, brain, world, and lifetime together.
- Consciousness is what divides the universe into symmetrical parts. It separates being, doing, and time from matter, energy, and space. This division makes it so that the former are presented as interior and ranging widely in quality, realism, and meaning while the latter is presented as exterior, real, and meaningless.
- This division replaces the idea of the Big Bang as an event in time and space, so that the Big Bang is the division of the universe into subjective times in objective places.
- The symmetry is not limited to subjective and objective groupings, so that consciousness can be used to focus on many different ways of making sense of itself and the universe.
Following are materials from my poster presentation at the 2012 TSC Conference:
40 The Elephant in Every Room: A Proposed Theory of Multisense Realism
Craig Weinberg
Multisense realism defines a new approach to bridge the Explanatory Gap between neurological observation and first hand conscious experience. This is a hypothesis of consciousness, elementary physics, and ultimately cosmology which requires no belief in non-ordinary reality yet which honors the full spectrum of the psyche and self. It consists of new interpretations of established scientific and common sense observations rather than a contradiction of them. It is proposed that consciousness, rather than being either a metaphysical epiphenomenon of matter, or a Cartesian dualism alongside matter, is more like a frequency range within a continuous spectrum which includes both subjective and objective phenomena. Rather than a simple graduated continuum like the electromagnetic spectrum, it should be conceived of as an ‘involuted continuum’ which twists into an interior and exterior topology like a Möbius strip. The common denominator (the strip) is the sense which arises from through symmetry, similarity, circuity, and divergence between the various nested perspectives on interiority and exteriority. Sense is the underlying primitive. That is what the cosmos, and we ourselves are “made of’”. Not mind or matter, but the capacity for the two to be both separate in one sense and the same thing in another. Sense is a universal dance of presentation and representation. Without either subject or object – there cannot be a sense of ‘reality’ or realism. Realism arises from this involuted continuum between opposite ontological expressions.
Discussion:
Q. Are we a body dreaming or are we a dream bodying?
A. Neither. Body and dream are two opposite sides of the same coin. We are the coin itself; the sense of the two sides opposition to and unity with each other.
Multisense Realism:
If we are to take our contemporary scientific understanding seriously, Whitehead’s famous quote would have to be literally true. All meaning and qualities which we appreciate in the universe would arise completely within our own human neurology, making the world beyond our mind a web of unconscious and intangible transactions; “the hurrying of material, endless and meaningless”. It is thought that the only other alternative is to regress to a pre-scientific model based on blind faith. Herein I attempt to sketch out a third option which presents a model of consciousness and cosmos as a coherent whole arising from a fundamentally symmetric dynamism which I call ‘sense’. Sense as sensation as well as the sense of coherence of groups of sensations or percepts, and finally sense ‘in the sense of’ modulation and categorization of attention/consideration. All three senses of sense are, in my view, essential elaborations of unifying awareness.
I. ACME-OMMM: Anthropomorphism vs Mechanemorphism
ACME stands for Anything Can Mean Everything, and OMMM = Only Material Matter Matters. They mark the extremes of the philosophical bias toward anthropomorphism or mechanemorphism. Each of these diametrically opposed psychologies stereotypes the other such that they constitute a monosense extremism. In other words, it seems that the human mind tends to interpret its relation with the universe in ways which can lead to hyperpersonalization (ACME) at the cost of de-realism or hyperrealism (OMMM) at the cost of de-personalization.
It is the goal of multisense realism to supersede and replace these twin pathological projections with a continuum or spectrum which seamlessly unites subjective and objective ontologies as well as preserves their division. The continuum is conceived as an involuted monism, like a Mobius strip, which honors both the realism and unrealism of consciousness and the universe on every level.
A. Seat Belt Metaphor and the Elephant in Every Room:
The absolute ubiquity of consciousness precludes objectivity by definition. Consciousness is the elephant (or rhinoceros) in every room. “Wherever I go, there you are.” – Buckaroo Banzai
When trying to understand the relationship between car and the driver, the OMMM materialist concludes that the seat belt must be the driver since every time we get out of the car to look, we only see the seat belt where we think the driver should be. Anyone who does not accept that the driver is nothing more than a seat belt is accused of being soft minded anthropomorphism.
When trying to explain the same relationship, the ACME idealist concludes that the seat belt is a kind of umbilical cord that translates the driver’s wishes into the car’s various parts. Neither view notices considers that both the driver and car are necessary.
B. The Symmetry Solution:
Avoiding either one of these unrealistic extremes, multisense realism finds the symmetry in their mutually exclusive denial of the other to be significant. The deeper reality is not a dualism of two separate universes for the material and the ideal, but many symmetrical views of the same universe which blend material and ideal realism to different degrees. The result can be thought of as a single unified continuum (monism) which reflects itself as a dualism on the outside and has no reflection on the inside (subjectivity).
The subject object relationship is the true ‘atom’ and is preserved up and down the cosmos. Our trouble arises from assuming that the cosmos is either objects which only seem subjective or subjects which are intended to seem objective.
C. Multisense Continuum:
Spanning the spectrum between cosmological absolutes, the multisense continuum represents every shade of subjectivity and objectivity though which the self and the universe are defined.
II. Closing the Explanatory Gap and Solving the Hard Problem of Consciousness:
Instead of trying to explain away consciousness, or jump to a conclusion of fully animistic panpsychism, the explanatory gap can be understood as the problem of mismatching the interior experience of our native perceptual inertial frame with the exterior appearances of all other inertial frames. To steal from Karl Popper and George Harrison, we are trying to explain the ‘cloudy’ universe within us in terms of the clockwork universe without us.
The realization of multisense realism is that the cloud-clock symmetry constitutes realism itself. We can understand that the clock can exist without us, but it can’t exist without some kind of ‘us’ detecting the clock on some aspect of the clock on some level. A universe that is all unconscious, undetectable mechanism is not a real universe. It has no real qualities. Likewise a universe of pure ideal plasticity is imaginary. It has no recursive automatism to lend it reality through time.
A. The Universe Makes Sense
The revolutionary conclusion of this line of thinking must be (or might be, depending on how cloudy or clock-like one’s perspective is) that sense itself is the universal primitive of reality and transcends causality itself. Cause and effect are a particular kind of sense making, a phenomenal experience rooted in objective reasoning and sequential perception. Without these sensorimotive underpinnings, causality literally makes no sense. The word cosmos means order, but order is only possible in a cosmos where pattern recognition is an inherent possibility. It has to be possible for the universe to make sense before we can make sense of it.
B. The Stack: Perceptual Relativistic Inertial Frames
Distant frames are perceived as discrete parts of a universe that ‘simply is’, while proximal frames are perceived increasingly as continuous participatory phenomena that ‘seems like’ subjective interpretation.
C. Sense conditioning
1. Specular Reflection: Perception integrates indirect perception into direct perception.
Implications for Artificial Intelligence, zombies, simulations or other unpersons: Subjectivity cannot be simulated, it can only be imitated. The uncanny valley phenomenon hints at this, as does blindsight and synesthesia hind at a lack of support for functionalism as an explanation for qualia.
2. Subtractive Coherence: Perception elides gaps to present coherence.
“ScienceDaily (Nov. 22, 2011) — Conventional wisdom would say that blocking a hole would prevent light from going through it, but Princeton University engineers have discovered the opposite to be true. A research team has found that placing a metal cap over a small hole in a metal film does not stop the light at all, but rather enhances its transmission.”
There is a recent study on psilocybin which supports Huxley’s intuition that the brain is like a reducing valve:
“Psilocybin caused a significant decrease in the positive coupling between the mPFC and PCC. These results strongly imply that the subjective effects of psychedelic drugs are caused by decreased activity and connectivity in the brain’s key connector hubs, enabling a state of unconstrained cognition.”
Less information going through the key areas of the brain = richer qualia. This doesn’t prove that qualia is possible in the absence of all brain activity, but it supports the counter-intuitive theme that sense a function not of the presence of stimulation but of the gaps between them, e.g. “dark current“:
“The subsequent cascade of events leads to a decrease of cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP) which closes the ionic channels on the plasma membrane of the rod outer segment. This channel normally is open, which allows entry of sodium into the rod outer segment in the dark, with a compensatory extrusion of potassium from the rod inner segment to balance the net charge within the cell. This circulating “dark current” between the inner and outer segments maintains the rod in a relatively depolarized state. Closure of the cGMP-sensitive channel by light interrupts the dark current. Interrupting the influx of sodium, which carries positive charge into the cell, causes the photoreceptor to hyperpolarize. This intracellular voltage change is conveyed to the synaptic terminal, where the visual signal is transmitted to the bipolar and horizontal cells.
To a first-time student of retinal neurophysiology, these events initiated by light may appear the reverse of what would be expected. Rather than initiating a positive response in the rod, light actually suppresses a current that exists in the dark.”
3. Wholes through holes
understand
O.E. understandan “comprehend, grasp the idea of,” probably lit. “stand in the midst of,” from under + standan “to stand” (see stand). If this is the meaning, the under is not the usual word meaning “beneath,” but from O.E. under, from PIE *nter- “between, among” (cf. Skt. antar “among, between,” L. inter “between, among,” Gk. entera “intestines;” see inter-).
- Connecting the dots.
- Solving a problem.
- Finishing a puzzle.
- Filling in the blanks.
- Answering a question.
- Figuring it out.
- Putting it together.
- Getting from A to B.
4. Ambiguous Images: ‘Seems like’ emphasizes ‘either/or’ interpretations which can be changed through time.
External objects emphasize unambiguous ‘and’ relations across topological space – they are literal and seem non-figurative.
figure (v) late 14c., “to represent” (in a picture); see figure (n.). Meaning “to shape into” is early 15c.; “to picture in the mind” is from c.1600; “to make an appearance” is c.1600. Meaning “work out a sum” is from 1833, Amer.Eng. Related: Figured; figuring.
figure (n) early 13c., “visible form or appearance of a person,” from O.Fr. figure (10c.) “shape, body, form, figure; symbol, allegory,” from L. figura “a shape, form, figure,” from PIE *dheigh- “to form, build” (see dough); originally in English with meaning “numeral,” but sense of “form, likeness” is almost as old.
Example features of human interior sense frames.
Semiotic model:
III. Sensorimotive Electromagnetism, c = absolute velocity and the end of the Standard Model
A. Quorum Sensing
B. Telesemantics: This hypothesis questions the existence of subatomic particles as concrete objects. Let’s say there is no particle, there is inter-molecular sensitivity instead. Contagious charge characteristics which are experienced directly by matter. This would constitute a sensorimotive aspect of electromagnetism which is private and shared between materials, but not publicly in space. This would coincide with our naive perception of energy as experiences in time rather than substances. Light, heat, sound, scale up as events of increasing magnitude and significance, not as physical residues. Contagious node to node subjective states, not independent energy projectiles through space. Vacuum = absolute void.
Q. Is this Panpsychism?
A. Close, but not exactly. Panpsychism can imply that a rock has human-like experiences. My hypothesis can be categorized as panexperientialism because I do think that all forces and fields are figurative externalizations of processes which literally occur within and through ‘matter’. Matter is in turn diffracted pieces of the primordial singularity. It’s confusing for us because we assume that motion and time are exterior conditions, but if my view is accurate, then all time and energy is literally interior to the observer as an experience. What I think is that matter and experience are two symmetrical but anomalous ontologies – two sides of the same coin, so that our qualia and content of experience is descended from accumulated sense experience of our constituent organism, not manufactured by their bodies, cells, molecules, interactions. The two are both opposite expressions – a [(what & how) of (matter and space) and a {who & why} of {experience and time}] of the underlying sense that binds them to the singularity (where & when).
Q. Why do you focus exclusively on electromagnetism as the fundamental correlation of “sensorimotive”? Wouldn’t strong and weak nuclear forces have the same basic “sensorimotive” properties?
A. I use electromagnetism because it has an iron clad association with sensroimotive experience. That is the main symmetry I want to get across. Once we understand that, all forces, strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravitational would be different inertial frames of reference of the same thing. They make sense in different ways, as would be appropriate when you are talking about density of large objects versus charge of atoms or how atoms are held together and fall apart, but to me these are just computational details. It’s *all* sensorimotive-electromagnetism.
The most provocative possibility of this is that rather than a Classical limit in the microcosm at which QED supersedes Newton, there is a Copernican limit at which we stop detecting objects per se and begin detecting our own instruments sensitivity itself. Atoms are antennas, and quantum mechanics are the exterior most aspects of the broadcasts. The form of the broadcasts looks electromagnetic to us (from the outside) but feels sensorimotive to us from the inside. Not that our perception is literally atomic, just as TV programs aren’t only pixels, but our perception is figuratively meta-meta-meta-meta atomic.
Charge is unexplained by physics but it may be more understandable as a sensorimotive quality that is experienced on many levels. Electromagnetic behaviors are predictable from mathematical models, but the fact of electromagnetism itself may arise from the microcosmic version of what we experience as autobiographical narrative as human beings. The stories of atoms may be less significant than our own in absolute or relative terms, but ultimately our stories are made of the same thing. Rhythmic changes of mood/activity.
IV. Cosmology: The Big Diffraction
Rather than a Big Bang, which conceives of the origin of timespace as an event in time in which matter expands into space (neither of which could exist yet) that there is instead a ‘Big Diffraction’.
A Big Diffraction would yield the same observation of expansion as our measurements suggest, it would not be the result of a real expansion into an infinite vacuum that exists independently, but instead it would be a shrinking of the scale ratio of matter to space. Matter would be receding into itself, but this would not be observable by material bodies within that process.
The idea of a Big Bang as an explosion into emptiness (as seen from a distance by a hypothetical voyeur) is actually as much of a fantasy as any pre-scientific creation myth, since at the beginning of time and space in this universe, there could be no exterior. All observations can only occur from within the singularity and have no exterior or temporal divisions. The singularity is then a timeless (i.e. it happens always and never) and undivided initial condition – an ‘everythingness’ and nothingness both. As such, causality itself supervenes upon the singularity rather than the other way around. Divisions and symmetries, such as matter and energy, time and space, subjective perception and objective relativity are reconciled in the primordial undiffracted whole.
A. Primordial syzygy
Consider that the entire cosmos is, in its most universal sense, a monad; a boundless and implicit firmament through which objects and experiences are diffracted. The primordial dynamic is not mechanism but stillness and stasis, like a spectrum to a prism. Anchored in that stable unity, matter is the more direct representation of this singularity (ie the many alchemical references to ‘stone’) than mechanical dynamism. Realism arises from the solidity of this insoluble substrate. A prism is not a machine, it is an object which reveals the essential coherence of visual qualia to visual subjects.
B. Anomalous Symmetry – Sense, Essence, Existence
Space is an an experiential relation between objects. In a universe of one object, there can be no space.
Time is memory and repeating sequence within perception. Without memory, there is only an eternal now.
Information and computation are sensorimotive artifacts of cognition which formalize natural sense figures. They are not concretely real but can be used by a conditioned agent to inform other physical agents, thereby impersonating the real.
Sensorimotive-Electromagnetism is the concretely real universal primitive, with the relation between the two opposing ontological (private-signifying-experiential and public-general-topological) perspective ranges being governed by their anomalous symmetry or ‘sense’ of each other.
Perception : Relativity
Significance = Energy * Time : Matter / space = Entropy
Slight statistical advantage for uncommon/unexpected outcomes at significant moments allows significance to persist and intensify. Like attracts like.
Q. What is time?
A. Time is an aggregate measure of physical change modeled in a linear fashion. It has no existence of it’s own beyond our sense of sequential causality (which evaporates predictably under altered states of consciousness – dreams, drugs, trance, etc). We are the ones who interpret the digits on the clocks and the calender squares as a shared temporal text. In reality, there are no days, just astrophysical orientations woven together by our memories and monitoring of regular oscillating patterns.
Like space, time can only be as discrete or continuous as the substances and processes we use to measure it. What we are measuring is not an objective condition, but our own normalized intersubjective detection of relations between patterns of energy/change.
Q. Is consciousness just electromagnetic patterns in the brain?
A. Only if we allow that electromagnetic patterns are always symptoms of detection and response (sensorimotive) experiences. It makes more sense to consider consciousness and electromagnetic patterns in the brain in the same way that we consider the self and the body: two sides of the same coin. One side is public, generic, literal, and understandable as relations between biological and chemical objects and the other side is private, proprietary, figurative, and understandable as experienced events and perceptions through time.
Q. How is time related to electromagnetism?
A. If we understand that our own experience can be described in two opposite ways, we can understand that electromagnetism in general can be understood in two opposite ways as well. Viewed from the outside, electromagnetism is a pattern of coordinated activity among multiple objects in space, and another, a single, private continuity of detection and response. We are used to understanding the exterior patterns in terms of forces and fields, however, like time, it would be a mistake to consider this inference to be literally true.
It is the hypothesis of Multisense Realism that electromagnetism does not exist as an independent force in a vacuum across space, but as a shared experience among material objects – atoms, molecules, cells, organisms, planets, stars, etc. Atoms do not stick together because of an external field that exists between them, it makes more sense that they stick together because what they inherently are mutually drawn together from the inside. We look at this from a distance, and disqualifying any possibility of sensorimotive content, model it as a mechanism through which space propagates waves of, or is penetrated by particles of ‘energy’.
Once we update our model so that matter detects and moves itself in relation to matter, that detection and motion comes to define energy. The implications of this are tremendous, as something like color and light can be understood as a visual experience of the human nervous system relating to a human universe rather than an independent particle-wave. Light is not just how we see, but it is how matter sees. Electromagnetism is not just how our brains feel, it is how matter feels. Once we can understand that, we can see that feeling and seeing is also what matter itself actually is.
The two sides of the coin are symmetrical and anomalous so that even though they are really the opposite sides of the same thing, each side perceives the other as unrelated. This is because one side is quantitative and topological and the other side is qualitative and narrative so they are not related one to one. You can’t look at a person’s brain and be able to tell what they are thinking because you would need to know the specifics of the entire story of their life first. The brain is many neurological ‘whats and hows’ but the self is a continuous fugue of signifying moments of ‘who and why’.
Time then, is part of how matter feels, how it makes sense of itself and its role in the universe, and feeling is the sensorimotive ‘heads’ side of the coin that is electromagnetic energy (‘tails’) on the other side. The Hard Problem of Consciousness and the Explanatory Gap arise from presuming that the heads side can be explained by figuring out everything about the tails side, when in fact, the two are perpendicular in every way, overlapping only in the synchronization of ‘where and when’ (an impulse in a region wherever the brain activity is associated with particular feelings whenever they are felt). The self extends from birth to death through a semantically charged universe of experienced times, people, places, and things while the brain extends from spinal cord to cerebrum, described only in a-signifying biochemical terms. It exists in a universe of neurotransmitters, spike trains, and ion channels. The two systems intersect only in the here and now, they are otherwise orthogonal to each other, pursuing opposite agendas of neurophysiology and autobiography.
Q. Are all forces and fields figurative?
A. Yes. From electromagnetism to gravity to the strong and weak force, to love and hate, beauty and morality, all ‘forces’ are the direct and indirect experiences of matter. When we see lightning or an electric spark we are seeing the gases that make up our atmosphere igniting spontaneously in response to interior tensions being released. In a complete vacuum, there is no spark – no atoms to offload the feeling of tension (charge) to. Matter does different things on different scales, and in different arrangements, but it is all ultimately the same protons with the same potential to build feeling and significance as well as unconsciousness, entropy, and death. Multisense realism is really very simple. The universe is a concrete reality which is matter ÷ space on the outside and experience * time on the inside. Space and time are true voids, containing nothing whatsoever except for the capacity to whip up the solitude of primordial potential into a frothy multiplicity of social realities.
Q. Is space or spacetime a field?
A. Not unless we understand that fields are figurative and not literally real. What makes space real is the ability to sense and make sense of objects. If the universe had only one object, there could be no frame of reference to create a space relation with. Space is a sense of proximity and velocity based on scale and position relative to the observer. With only one object, there is no difference between motion or stillness, size, or place. Space is how things feel their exteriority in relation to other exteriors. Both space and time are ways that sense is virtually partitioned. They are gaps or voids which isolate parts of the cosmos from other parts on one level, while they remain part of the same essential continuum on another level.
V. Implications for Free Will and Ethics:
Moral topology arises through an accumulated or multiplied charge on sense and motive. Sense charge is experienced as elevated significance – positively as high quality, heroic, divine – negatively as a threat of low quality, dirty, shameful, ‘evil’ association. The magnitude of this charge follows the general pattern of quality > amplification > embodiment so that the greater the figurative power of the association, the more attractive/repulsive response they engender and the closer to absolute good or evil will the images be.
Motive power is experienced as the capacity to generate outcomes in the world. The topology is that of criminality and success. Sense and motive are intertwined such that people and actions which have accumulated a sufficiently intense repulsive charge associated on them may be persecuted or prosecuted criminally (justified or not by the danger that is literally presented by the consequences of the prohibited motives). Likewise, motives which may pose a threat but have a sufficiently positive reputation are often decriminalized, or are tolerated.
Free will may arise from this amplification > embodiment pattern. Teleology is an inherent primitive, but not all things have equal teleological capacities so that it takes significant sense experiences to accumulate into a sense of embodiment or self awareness. As a rule of thumb, the more sense you make, the more sense you can make, and the more power and foresight you have to change yourself and the world. The feeling of free will, therefore, can only be the promise of possibility for its realization.
Q. Why can’t significance be modeled as a computation? What it is about feelings that cannot be represented as a large set of variables and states with accompanying functions and patterns that are interpreted by the mind as “I feel happy”.
Because you would still need something to interpret the large set of variables as a feeling rather than an a-signifying, generic variable. How long of a player piano roll would you need before the piano started to get up and dance to the music? How many golf balls have to roll down a funnel before it represents sunset on Maui? There is no number. The poker game is not in the cards, it’s in the players experience.
On Entropy, Extropy, and Solitopy:
By my reckoning, ‘order’ can only be an aesthetic consideration, which further means that it is dependent on the sensitivity of a given participant. Thermodynamic entropy, therefore, while overlapping on information entropy by some measures, does not in others.
I use the example of compressing a video of a glass of ice melting to illustrate how the image of ice changing over time, being more complex and therefore requiring more resources to compress with a general-purpose video codec, defies the underlying thermodynamic change from low entropy to high entropy. If you compressed a before and after video, the after video would encounter lower information entropy in executing the compression than the melting ice.
All this demonstrates is that not every expression or description of a phenomenon can be reduced to a quantitative expectation. The optical qualities of melting ice from a macroscopic perspective are not isomorphic to other levels, perspectives, and sense modalities.
Anyhow, my conjecture uses a term ‘solitropy’ which refers to the aesthetic drive which you call extropy or Eros, but it is not diametrically opposed to entropy. Simple negentropy would be a reduction in noise, but would not insist on the content of the signal itself improving qualitatively. You can make the type as clear as you like, but that won’t improve what is being said. Solitropy would extend entropy-extropy into a private quality of physics, so that we would be able to formalize in physics, for instance, the difference between the entropy produced by burning down a city and boiling water.
By my reckoning, ‘order’ can only be an aesthetic consideration, which further means that it is dependent on the sensitivity of a given participant. Thermodynamic entropy, therefore, while overlapping on information entropy by some measures, does not in others.
I use the example of compressing a video of a glass of ice melting to illustrate how the image of ice changing over time, being more complex and therefore requiring more resources to compress with a general-purpose video codec, defies the underlying thermodynamic change from low entropy to high entropy. If you compressed a before and after video, the after video would encounter lower information entropy in executing the compression than the melting ice.
All this demonstrates is that not every expression or description of a phenomenon can be reduced to a quantitative expectation. The optical qualities of melting ice from a macroscopic perspective are not isomorphic to other levels, perspectives, and sense modalities.
Anyhow, my conjecture uses a term ‘solitropy’ which refers to the aesthetic drive which you call extropy or Eros, but it is not diametrically opposed to entropy. Simple negentropy would be a reduction in noise, but would not insist on the content of the signal itself improving qualitatively. You can make the type as clear as you like, but that won’t improve what is being said. Solitropy would extend entropy-extropy into a private quality of physics, so that we would be able to formalize in physics, for instance, the difference between the entropy produced by burning down a city and boiling water.


































































#1 by Joseph McCard on September 16, 2012 - 1:17 pm
Joe: A lot of good, well written, interesting stuff here. However, there are two concerns I have (aside, “Only two?”).
1) There is no explanation for consciousness itself. Whatever he calls it, the hard problem, the soft problem, it’s still a problem.
2) Craig seriously believes there is a subjective reality and a separate mind-independent objective reality.
Together, they make sense. : )
#2 by multisenserealism on September 16, 2012 - 2:12 pm
1) It is confusing, but if you understand what I am trying to get at, then you should see that I explicitly say that explanation can only reduce concepts into simpler concepts, while consciousness (really sense) has no simpler concept. There is no problem, because problems themselves are a concept of consciousness. I explain, however, that sense can be understood. It is not necessary for us to accept that now that we know consciousness is fundamental, that is all we can know. I am saying that it is just the beginning and describe how sense consists of aspects of self integration – experiential receptivity and projection, inertial frames of meta-juxatposition, etc. I try to show how these ideas (sense and motive) fit in with the general categories present in the universe: time, space, matter, energy, entropy, and significant.
2) Joseph, aka Otmar seriously misinterprets Craig’s view of objectivity. Multisense realism specifies that there is no reality which is independent of sense. There is no separation, only diffraction and reflection. I have gone into great detail explaining how mind (cognitive sense) is only another layer of subjective realism, and that what we experience as exterior bodies are subjective experiences that are not ours. It isn’t a matter of ‘together, they make sense’, it is that ‘sense is made by twisting them almost completely apart’.
#3 by Joseph McCard on September 19, 2012 - 5:11 pm
Craig: Sense, as the receptive modality and participation as the active modality are two aspects of the same underlying universal primitive, the inherent potential for meta juxtaposition of self/non-self which is also intentionally referred to as ‘sense’.
Joe: I find your statement ambiguous. Is it Consciousness or Sense that is the universal primitive, the potential for juxtaposition? [my neuro-philosophy prof, Austen Clark, wrote an entire book on intentionality, so I am not even going to try to get into that). Sense is the result of the juxtaposition of self/non-self?
In the juxtaposition of self/non-self, do you take self to be the receptive modality, and non-self to be the active modality?
#4 by multisenserealism on September 19, 2012 - 8:38 pm
” Is it Consciousness or Sense that is the universal primitive”
Sense.
“Sense is the result of the juxtaposition of self/non-self? ”
Yes, but I wouldn’t ‘make it a human sense of Self. More of a ‘same vs not-same’.
“In the juxtaposition of self/non-self, do you take self to be the receptive modality, and non-self to be the active modality?”
Think of the I Ching primary lines – The receptive is the overly yang that wants to be yin, the projective is overly yin and wants to be yang. The receptive is the welcoming of the non-self into the self, the projective is the penetration of the self into the non-self.
#5 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 2:48 am
Craig: The receptive is the welcoming of the non-self into the self, the projective is the penetration of the self into the non-self.
Joe: Where did the receptive modality and the participation (projective?) modality come from? What did they come from.
Craig: The universal set of experiential principles through which fundamental and derived aspects are presented in relation to each other.
Joe: What kind of rules or experiential principles are we taking about here?
#6 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 3:02 am
“Where did the receptive modality and the participation (projective?) modality come from? What did they come from. ”
The idea of things coming from somewhere is not an appropriate thing to ask at that level. It is too primitive for wheres and comes from. Everything comes from them, there is nothing more primitive. They are the primordial principle of experience. They themselves are beyond origination.
“Joe: What kind of rules or experiential principles are we taking about here?”
Meta self-juxtaposition.
#7 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 3:42 am
Craig: Think of the I Ching primary lines – The receptive is the overly yang that wants to be yin, the projective is overly yin and wants to be yang. The receptive is the welcoming of the non-self into the self, the projective is the penetration of the self into the non-self.
Joe: Yin-yang are both conceptualized as forces. “Yin and yang are not opposing forces (dualities), but complementary forces. (wikipedia).
I spent about 4 years off and on talking about the I-Ching and consciousness with Chris Lofting:
http://www.emotionaliching.com/myweb/newindex.html
Yin-yang is the Chinese version of the action-identity story of consciousness. There are numerous parallels:
1) everything has both yin and yang aspects. everything has aspects of action and identity.
2) yin cannot exist without yang and yang cannot exist without yin. action cannot exist without identity, if you recall I said, “Without identity, action would be meaningless. for there would be nothing upon which action could act.” And, identity cannot exist without action, “An identity is a dimension of existence, action within action, and through this interweaving of action with itself, through this re-action, an identity is formed.
3) “Yin is female and yang is male. They fit together as two parts of a whole. The male principle was equated with the sun: active, bright, and shining; the female principle corresponds to the moon: passive, shaded, and reflective. Male toughness was balanced by female gentleness, male action and initiative by female endurance and need for completion.”(wikipedia)
Action is male, as I have said, ” Action, because of its nature, must involve change, while identity is female, thus seeks stability.
4) “Yin and Yang are dependent opposing forces that flow in a natural cycle, always seeking balance.” (wikipedia) But never attaining balance. As I have said, ” Action by its nature has an inherent drive for change, while identity constantly seeks stability. There is a constant flow. This results in an imbalance, the creative product of this imbalance is consciousness of self.”
5) Yin-yang/action-identity, two aspects of a single reality.
6) “Yin and yang are not opposing forces (dualities), but complementary forces, unseen (hidden, feminine) and seen (manifest, masculine), that interact to form a greater whole, as part of a dynamic system.” (wikipedia)
Consciousness is composed of energy. Action-identity is a dynamic system. As I said, “Identity may be termed action which is conscious of itself. For the purposes of our discussion, the terms action and identity must be separated, but basically no such separation exists. The energy of action, the workings of action within and upon itself, forms identity. Yet though identity is formed from action, action and identity cannot be separated.
7) Yin-yang give rise to each other. They are a natural duality. Action-identity give rise to each other, they are a natural duality. They are both interconnected and interdependent, interacting to form a greater whole, consciousness, and all of reality.
#8 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 4:20 am
“Consciousness is composed of energy. Action-identity is a dynamic system.”
I maintain that consciousness isn’t composed of anything. It is all ‘things’ that are composed of consciousness. Energy is a superfluous abstraction that only distracts from the plain truth. Experiences have qualities, some of those qualities are energetic, warm, masculine, feminine, etc. There is no independent thing that energy is. It does not occupy space by itself as matter does or occupy time by itself as awareness does. Energy is a concept of physics to control and compute the continuity of change between objects.
The rest I am generally in agreement with, except that I don’t like either term ‘action’ or ‘identity’. They do not imply participation or perception. Identity has a cognitive connotation, whereas I think the most primitive experiences of sense are unidentified detections. Sense does not have to be interpreted. I often have feelings that I cannot identify in any way, but I still have a sense of them. Action is too specific to me. I like motive better because action has a connotation that something must actually happen in a public way. Motive makes the subtle distinction so that the action is understood as a chain of consequences resulting from a moment of direct participation and intent – of expectation and impulse which precedes a worldly action.
#9 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 12:58 pm
Craig:The receptive is the overly yang that wants to be yin, the projective is overly yin and wants to be yang.
Craig: sense is really both the active and passive sense. It might be clearer to call them afferent and efferent sense or perception and participation. All of them supervene on sense.
Joe: “Wanting” suggests desire or intention. Does sense have this quality built-in.
“Desire is the womb from which all things have their birth or beginning.” (Hermes Trismegestus) Somewhat of a German Idealist.
I have said previously that energy, coupled with desire is all I assume.
Here is an abstract of the book by Austen Clark from OUP.
If you read the abstract, you can tell me your thoughts about this whole issue, and if you think Prof. Clark and you have much in common.:
The first philosophical treatment of sensation informed by modern science
A brilliant synthesis of the findings of different disciplines
Features fascinating explorations of everyday phenomena and puzzles
Beautifully written; accessible equally to philosophers and psychologists
Austen Clark offers a general account of the forms of mental representation that we call `sensory’. To sense something, one must have some capacity to discriminate among sensory qualities; but there are other requirements. What are they, and how can they be put together to yield full-blown sensing?
Drawing on the findings of current neuroscience, Clark proposes and defends the hypothesis that the various modalities of sensation share a generic form that he calls ‘feature-placing’. Sensing proceeds by picking out place-times in or around the body of the sentient organism, and characterizing qualities (features) that appear at those place-times. Such feature-placing is a primitive kind–probably the most primitive kind–of mental representation. Once its peculiarities have been described, many of the puzzles about the intentionality of sensation, and the phenomena that lead some to label it ‘pseudo-intentional’, can be resolved. The hypothesis casts light on many other troublesome phenomena, including the varieties of illusion, the problem of projection, the notion of a visual field, the location of after-images, the existence of sense-data, and the role of perceptual demonstratives. A Theory of Sentience will interest anyone interested in the topics of sensation, representation, or phenomenal consciousness.
Readership: Philosophers, psychologists, and neuroscientists interested in sensation and perception.
http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780198238515.do#.UFsQIUKTN5g
#10 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 5:29 pm
“Joe: “Wanting” suggests desire or intention. Does sense have this quality built-in.”
Yes. Wanting is motive. Calling it wanting gives it more of an emotional level quality of motive, so more for organisms that can move voluntarily.
“Clark proposes and defends the hypothesis that the various modalities of sensation share a generic form that he calls ‘feature-placing’. ”
Nah. What’s a feature? What’s a place? These must be detected through sense and made sense of to start with. It’s actually the opposite, place and time arise from sensemaking of qualitative experiences. Think of how we might wake up from a deep sleep and not know where we are or what time it is. That does not suggest a primordial anchoring of sense in feature placement. We open our eyes and see familiar objects, we see what it looks like out the window and on the clock. We don’t seem to have any special connection to spacetime qua spacetime. It’s all about the self relating to things relating to things. Spacetime is a posteriori to that fundamental relation.
#11 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 2:10 pm
Craig:The receptive is the overly yang that wants to be yin, the projective is overly yin and wants to be yang.
Joe: As I understand this, yang wants to be yin, it has the desire and impetus to completely materialize itself, but the inability to completely do so. It is desire that creates the imbalance, the flow.
One can think of this as represented by the equation E = mcc, or by the Taijitu.
Here is a relevant quote from “Hoopes, Aaron (2007). Zen Yoga: A Path to Enlightenment though Breathing, Movement and Meditation.
“The Taijitu is one of the oldest and best-known life symbols in the world, but few understand its full meaning. It represents one of the most fundamental and profound theories of ancient Taoist philosophy. At its heart are the two poles of existence, which are opposite but complementary. The light, white Yang moving up blends into the dark, black Yin moving down. Yin and Yang are dependent opposing forces that flow in a natural cycle, always seeking balance. Though they are opposing, they are not in opposition to one another. As part of the Tao, they are merely two aspects of a single reality. Each contains the seed of the other, which is why we see a black spot of Yin in the white Yang and vice versa. They do not merely replace each other but actually become each other through the constant flow of the universe. ”
Joe: If you place, as you seem to say, Truth above all else, you will give some serious consideration to the possibility that energy is the ultimate primitive.
#12 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 5:39 pm
“As I understand this, yang wants to be yin, it has the desire and impetus to completely materialize itself, but the inability to completely do so. It is desire that creates the imbalance, the flow. ”
I think that’s an okay way to conceive of it. I mean it’s just a conceptual framework, not a discrete substance. I like the I Ching way of looking at it where ‘old yin’ changes into ‘young yang’ and old yang changes to young yin. This way it’s not a perpetual imbalance, it’s a balance of imbalance. Both yin and yang are quite happy to be themselves in one mode, and long to be the other in another mode.
“Joe: If you place, as you seem to say, Truth above all else,”
Joe, you have a habit of taking something I said in a particular conversation about something and then hoisting it up as a flag on top of my head, even after I have already pointed out your misinterpretation. I never, ever said Truth above all else. I never mention ‘truth’ in Multisense Realism. Just the opposite, I talk about the relativity of perceptual contexts. The one time I mentioned truth was in conversation with you when you were suggesting that other theories were more respected or something, so I was defending that my only intent in talking about Multisense Realism is in revealing truth – *not* that truth is what matters in the universe. If anything it is fiction which is primordial in the universe.
#13 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 2:19 pm
Joe: Sense, the universal primitive, has two modal aspects, receptivity and participation. Each of these modes uses sets of rules or principles for processing I/O data. Is that right?
These two aspects create the inherent potential for meta juxtaposition of same vs. not-same [self/non-self] which is also intentionally referred to as ‘sense’. So, this means for example, the receptive mode can tell which is input, and can distinguish 1′s and 0′s, black or white, etc. And, the participation mode can distinguish data as output, and whether it is a 0 or 1, black or white etc. Is that right?
#14 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 5:47 pm
“Joe: Sense, the universal primitive, has two modal aspects, receptivity and participation. Each of these modes uses sets of rules or principles for processing I/O data. Is that right? ”
No. The two modal aspects of sense are what all possible sets and rules are made of. They don’t follow rules, they make rules. There is no such thing as I/O data, except in our mind when we imagine how computation works. The only concretely real input and output there is in the universe is the perceptual receptivity and motive participation of sense.
“So, this means for example, the receptive mode can tell which is input, and can distinguish 1′s and 0′s, black or white, etc. And, the participation mode can distinguish data as output, and whether it is a 0 or 1, black or white etc. Is that right? ”
If I am tense, I can tell that I am tense. The ability to discern that I am tense is the same thing as the desire to relax. If I have the desire to relax I can decide to give in to that desire or fight that desire, depending on the larger meta-juxtapositions of sense (do I win something if I fight the desire? will I fail if I give in?) The ideas of 0/1, black/white are great for helping us focus on the symmetry of the juxtaposition, but if we want to get real about it, we have to imagine being an amoeba. An amoeba doesn’t feel 0 or 1. It has an actual experience of whatever amoeba feel or sense. It has no representation, it is a presentation.
#15 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 2:49 pm
Joe: Sense is the result of the juxtaposition of self/non-self? ”
Craig:Yes, but I wouldn’t ‘make it a human sense of Self. More of a ‘same vs not-same’.
Joe: Joe: In the beginning (yes, again) “God” or “All That Is”,or whatever term you choose, “God” is all there was, and there was nothing else. Yet “God” could not even know itself -because, “GOD” is all there was, and there was nothing else. And so, “God”…was not. For in the absence of something else, “God”, is not.
There was no active modality, hence, there was no self. This is the Is/Not Is to which mystics have referred from the beginning of time.
Now “God” knew it was all there was -but this was not enough, for it could only know* its utter magnificence conceptually, not experientially. Yet the experience of itself is that for which it longed, for it wanted to know what it felt like to be so magnificent. Still, this was impossible, because the very term “magnificent” is a relative term. “God” could not know what it felt like to be magnificent unless that which is not showed up, until the not-same showed up. In the absence of that which is not, that which IS, is not.
Joe: You cannot experience the same as what it is until you have encountered what it is not, the not-same. This is the purpose of the theory of relativity, and all physical life. It is by that which the same is not that the same itself can be defined.
IN the case of the ultimate knowing your self as the Creator, as God, a part of God (whatever mythology you want to use) -you cannot experience your Self as creator unless and until you create. And you cannot create yourself until you uncreate yourself. In a SENSE, you have to first “not be” in order to be.
know* -I distinguish procedural knowledge, what is called know how, which is experiential knowledge, from knowledge by acquaintance, the knowledge of somethings existence, in this case, the acquaintance of “God” with “God”, i.e., consciousness of self.
#16 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 6:01 pm
“In the beginning (yes, again) “God” or “All That Is”,or whatever term you choose, “God” is all there was, and there was nothing else. ”
No, I am saying that God is only Everythingness. Totality. It has no beginning. Beginnings are an idea arising from being a diffraction within the singularity.
“There was no active modality, hence, there was no self. ”
No, there was every modality. It’s still happening. It hasn’t happened yet. It never happened. The totality is outside of time. It’s like the program which we experience in a limited way as a runtime execution. The program wasn’t written in runtime, it is being written all the time.
“Still, this was impossible, because the very term “magnificent” is a relative term. ”
I think you have the right idea. I don’t like to use such anthropomorphic terms – that God was longing for materialization, etc. I think of it in terms of the nature of signal itself – of coherence, and how it automatically becomes the most important (magnificent) thing in any possible universe. I call that the Sole Entropy Well – the first thing to not be nothing has no choice but to become the only universe that will ever be. It’s like the opposite of a black hole – nothing that makes sense can exist that can’t be traced back to the Step One.
I generally agree with what you are saying about juxtaposition of not-self, but you should re-run your conclusions with EVERYTHINGNESS as the basic unit rather than somethingness or non-nothingness. We are wholes cut out of the whole, not structures built from nothing.
#17 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 5:24 pm
Craig: Energy is a superfluous abstraction that only distracts from the plain truth.
Joe: The associations you have with the word “energy” are directly tied to your beliefs. So, for example, when I read something you have read that contradicts what I believe, I have to set aside my own associations, and listen to what your’s are. However, after trying to do that with your understanding of “energy”, I have found too many problems. The problem of how things change being the big one. Maybe bodies do move, and energy is a kind of measure of that movement. But, emotions move, thoughts move, ideas move. and as far as I understand, they are not objects, according to you. All subjective and objective things change.
Craig: Experiences have qualities, some of those qualities are energetic, warm, masculine, feminine, etc.
Joe: These are qualities of objects, or feelings associated to qualities of objects. It stretches the imagination to believe they are qualities of thoughts and ideas themselves.
Craig: There is no independent thing that energy is. It does not occupy space by itself as matter does or occupy time by itself as awareness does.
Joe: That is correct. It is not a thing, it is a way of being. Again you seem to have difficulty groking that.
Craig: Energy is a concept of physics to control and compute the continuity of change between objects.
Joe The concept “energy” is a word, it is not the real thing. It is a symbol, a symbol given a specific meaning by Physics, but a symbol that also means other things to other people.
Craig: The rest I am generally in agreement with, except that I don’t like either term ‘action’ or ‘identity’. They do not imply participation or perception.
Joe: All you are saying is that they do not imply participation or perception to you. “Identity” is a term we can use to talk about what happens when an event occurs. The event I am talking about is the one in which, again using words, energy acts within and upon itself. it may be that you are unfamiliar with this kind of event. First of all, you do not believe there is energy, and if there was you are unlikely to believe it can act within and upon itself. Just as your idea of no-energy has created problems such as I have stated, what problems does the idea of energy create for you?
All we can do here is to try to address each of our problems. So, for example, you say that energy is not an independent thing. I don’t see that as a problem, energy is not a thing, it is a way of being. In turn, you seem to reject the idea that there are other ontologically valid states that are ways of being. For you it seems, matter is the only way of being.
Craig: Identity has a cognitive connotation, whereas I think the most primitive experiences of sense are unidentified detections.
Joe: The same argument applies here. This is a connotation to YOU.
Craig: Sense does not have to be interpreted. I often have feelings that I cannot identify in any way, but I still have a sense of them.
Joe Absolutely. I happen to believe that feeling is the language of the soul. If you want to know what’s true about something, look to how you are feeling about it.
Craig: Action is too specific to me. I like motive better because action has a connotation that something must actually happen in a public way.
Joe: Again, a connotation to you. Energy has the capacity to do work, to act. Your conscious thoughts and beliefs can act on each other, right? Your thoughts can act on your body. That is a private act that becomes public.
Craig: Motive makes the subtle distinction so that the action is understood as a chain of consequences resulting from a moment of direct participation and intent – of expectation and impulse which precedes a worldly action.
Joe: The teleology of action is significant in a different context. I am only speaking of action’s effect, it acts. You want to talk purpose, cause and effect, that’s another discussion.
Craig: I maintain that consciousness isn’t composed of anything.
Joe: Where does consciousness come from? How does it relate to how the mind works? If you were to simply remain neutral on the issue of energy, that would be one thing. But, by denying the existence of energy you are overly aggressive in trying to impose your very valid ideas about consciousness into other perspectives on consciousness, like mine. It reminds me of the whole Israeli/Palestine conflict. The Israeli settlers aggressively seize Palestinian lands and water. If you are going to try to push me out of the way, don’t be surprised if I push back.
Craig:It is all ‘things’ that are composed of consciousness.
Joe: Yes. Right! On this we can agree.
#18 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 8:01 pm
“But, emotions move, thoughts move, ideas move. and as far as I understand, they are not objects, according to you”
They move figuratively, and through time, not literally across space. Emotions don’t need energy to be emotions, they are already exactly what they are – experiences. Energy is about physics. It’s about burning fuel to move a piston. You can’t move a piston by being angry at it. Emotion is not energy, but energy is emotion as an impersonal inference in matter.
“It stretches the imagination to believe they are qualities of thoughts and ideas themselves. ”
I would have thought that psychedelic experience would have shown you otherwise. If I am color blind does that mean that the objects that I see lack color while I am looking at them and then quickly become more colorful when someone else looks?
“That is correct. It is not a thing, it is a way of being. Again you seem to have difficulty groking that.”
No, it’s you who is having difficulty that you are talking about sense, not energy. A way of being is perception. Energy is an explanation of what we perceive objects as doing, but energy doesn’t account for perception, just as words are not meaning, but meaning can be words.
“It is a symbol, a symbol given a specific meaning by Physics, but a symbol that also means other things to other people. ”
I’m saying that it is a deeper truth to understand that it is not energy that they are talking about but direct perception. Sense.
“what problems does the idea of energy create for you?”
It creates the problem of justifying itself. I have sense and motive, so I don’t need energy hanging around by itself.
“you seem to reject the idea that there are other ontologically valid states that are ways of being. For you it seems, matter is the only way of being.”
I don’t know where you get this stuff. Did you not look at any of my diagrams? Every one of them clearly shows a cosmology in which matter plays a specific role: as impersonal, exteriorized objects of sense. That’s it. Matter is the orthogonal twist of subjectivity – the ‘tails’ to Sense’s heads. All matter is nothing but experiences. Energy is experiences that we aren’t having (but that we infer of objects).
“The same argument applies here. This is a connotation to YOU. ”
Yes, of course. Just as your objections are objectionable to YOU.
“Your conscious thoughts and beliefs can act on each other, right? Your thoughts can act on your body. That is a private act that becomes public. ”
That’s a good example of why energy isn’t a good word for subjectivity. It takes very little physical energy in the brain to initiate an action in the body. They aren’t equal. The private act is a tiny set of electrical impulse while the public consequence could be equally small or it could be a violent motion of the entire body.
“The teleology of action is significant in a different context. I am only speaking of action’s effect, it acts.”
That’s what I’m saying, it is a clumsy word. If I think ‘I should eat a lemon’, I am considering a motive, but I have not taken an action until I actually go out and pick a lemon and eat it. Which one is the action? The considering? The deciding? The eating?
“Where does consciousness come from? ”
You have it backwards. Where comes from consciousness.
“How does it relate to how the mind works?”
The human mind? Again, I don’t get into psychology per se. I’m on the hard problem – how the bricks of consciousness work. You are asking how the Taj Majal works. Same answer…it uses a lot of bricks.
” If you are going to try to push me out of the way, don’t be surprised if I push back. ”
I’m not trying to push anybody out of the way, I’m only saying that the word energy is redundant if you have sense.
#19 by Joseph McCard on September 20, 2012 - 2:13 am
Craig: Sense, as the receptive modality and participation as the active modality are two aspects of the same underlying universal primitive, the inherent potential for meta juxtaposition of self/non-self which is also intentionally referred to as ‘sense’.
Joe: It sounds like you are saying sense is the receptive modality and participation is the active modality.
Its as if you misplaced and then forgot a coma:
Sense as the receptive modality, and participation as the active modality, are two aspects of the same underlying primitive….
But this different punctuation indicates that there is some primitive that is composed of both sense and participation. But in your clarification, you said sense was the ultimate primitive.
So, just to make sure I understand you correctly, sense is the universal primitive, and it has two aspects, receptivity and participation. Is that right?
#20 by multisenserealism on September 20, 2012 - 2:23 am
“It sounds like you are saying sense is the receptive modality and participation is the active modality.”
Yes, although it is confusing because sense is really both the active and passive sense. It might be clearer to call them afferent and efferent sense or perception and participation. All of them supervene on sense.
“But this different punctuation indicates that there is some primitive that is composed of both sense and participation. But in your clarification, you said sense was the ultimate primitive.”
Yes, it’s confusing but I think it’s actually accurate, because sense is inherently the nesting of sense. Within every experience however, the sense is the same sense as the universal primitive.
“So, just to make sure I understand you correctly, sense is the universal primitive, and it has two aspects, receptivity and participation. Is that right?”
Yes, its also about the capacity to discern those aspects of itself…which is sense too. This means that the having of two aspects is the third aspect, which is really the first aspect, the bootstrapping of itself.
#21 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 1, 2013 - 3:23 pm
” It might be clearer to call them afferent and efferent sense or perception and participation. All of them supervene on sense.”
How do you distinguish “perception” from “participation”? Isn’t perception participation?
“sense is inherently the nesting of sense. Within every experience however, the sense is the same sense as the universal primitive.”
What do you mean “the same”? Do you mean it as Leibniz’s Principle of the Identity of Indiscernibles (PII)?
” its also about the capacity to discern those aspects of itself…which is sense too.”
Is that intelligibly discern or experientially discern, or both?
” This means that the having of two aspects is the third aspect, which is really the first aspect, the bootstrapping of itself.”
This sounds like a recursive procedure (?)
If you want, you can e-mail me if and when you respond. Thank-you
joseph.mccard@att.net
#22 by multisenserealism on February 1, 2013 - 4:49 pm
“How do you distinguish “perception” from “participation”? Isn’t perception participation?”
The difference is that perceptions in which we participate seem to involve us personally while other kinds of perceptions we can hold ourselves aloof from.
“What do you mean “the same”?”
Not sure about the Leibniz sense, but I mean the same in the way that even if you are playing a game of chess within an adventure game, it is still the ‘same’ game.
“Is that intelligibly discern or experientially discern, or both?”
It’s always experiential, but if the discernment has evolved to the level of cognitive understanding, then it can be an experience of intelligible discernment.
“This sounds like a recursive procedure (?)”
It would be, except the Absolute precedes time and memory so that the triple-aspect bootstrapping is more like the root of ontology itself.
#23 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 1, 2013 - 4:35 pm
Besides sense, does your model also include an independently existing matter (whatever that is)? So, for example, how does experience happen? That is, what does sense sense?
#24 by multisenserealism on February 1, 2013 - 4:55 pm
In my model, matter is basically the reduced presence of ‘experience which is not your own’. Sense doesn’t need a how, because ‘How’ is a category of sense within experience. Sense precedes everything else. Same with ‘What’ sense senses. Sense is that which cannot be escaped or reduced.
#25 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 2, 2013 - 12:52 pm
Let me see if I can explain more fully. Aristotle believed that when things changes, for example, when wood burned, that there was some constant matter that underwent the change, that traded one set of qualities for another. But since the qualities in question were supposed to be the most basic, not reducible to more primitive qualities, the matter that underlies these changes must be supposed to have no qualities of its own at all. This qualityless and formless matter Aristotle called “prime matter”. You will never find prime matter anywhere on its own, in isolation from any attributes. Everything that is real has some attributes, and that means that everything that is real has some form. Prime matter is simply postulated as the source of continuity in changes from one basic form to another.
Nobody experiences prime matter. It is not a “what”. It is also called “the Tao”. The prime matter that is experienced or described is not the eternal prime matter.
#26 by multisenserealism on February 2, 2013 - 1:50 pm
I understand, but I think that view is not as complete as what I propose. Neither the Aristotelian nor the Taoist view successfully recognizes both matter and the experiencer of matter as on continuous physical presence. With multisense realism, I am trying to show exactly how that can be done. The key difference is that I am identifying the continuity of matter through time as a function of private experience, not public structures. There is no ‘prime matter’ but there is a material “what” that is the view of an experiential “who” from outside of themselves (separated by a spatial gap of ‘where’).
All of that about the Tao not being the Tao that is named is about consciousness being the capacity to experience, not any particular experience. Lao Tzu (or whoever was quoted as Lao Tzu) was talking about how sense works subtractively, filling by emptying, doing by not-doing, etc. It’s about identifying with your super-personal range of peaceful intuition rather than asserting from sub-personal urges and personal drives.
#27 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 2, 2013 - 7:31 pm
Properties of sense:
“Sense is that which cannot be…reduced.”
So, sense has no parts, right? Or, are there sense qualia, bits of sense, out of which composites and patterns, are made?
Sense does not have extension, shape, or divisibility (?)
Consequently, sense can be neither created nor destroyed by or into something else. And, there is no conceivable way sense can be affected by itself. (this might lead to a problem later, whereby if you assume sense is fundamental, and it cannot act on itself, where do sense qualia come from, unless you assume sense has parts called sense qualia, units of sense? )
There is no way of explaining how sense can be altered or changed internally by sense itself or by some other means. If it has no parts, one cannot transpose anything “in” it, nor can one think of any internal motion that can be augmented or diminished, as in done in composites or patterns, where there can be change among parts.
But still, there must be some differences in the qualities of sense, for one state of things would be indistinguishable from another. This follows from the principle of the identity of indiscernibles. One thinks of different kinds of atomic elements here.
So perhaps there is some kind of internal principle that one would use to distinguish one sense from another? And, there must be diversity in that change, which provides variety. It sounds like that internal principle is perception. Each sense qualia has a different perspective on the world. Does that sound right? That would be how one sense is distinguished from another.
Also, does sense have some kind of internal theater in which what it senses is displayed? That is, I am not sure how I actually sense different things. Are there kinds of sense that sense one kind of thing and not other kinds of things, or does all sense have the capacity to sense different kinds of things. So for example, vision might be coded by vision sense, or, vision is de-coded into some universal sense code.
#28 by multisenserealism on February 2, 2013 - 9:31 pm
Sense contains all experiences, but is not itself contained by anything else. There isn’t anything that isn’t sensed directly or indirectly and even nonsense is sense ‘in a sense’.
Having said that, I propose that sense has three modes, two of presentation (perception and participation), and one of representation. Presentation is sensory-motor experience, which becomes private through representation as impersonal matter-energy across spatio-temporal gaps.
The unit of qualia or bits of sense I would just call experience, but the quality of a given experience could be understood on a logarithmic scale from generic-universal to proprietary-ecstatic. I call that the Chalmeroff scale.
“And, there is no conceivable way sense can be affected by itself. ”
Sense affects itself through representation (space-time gap). This, like Tzimtzum, allows sense to perform a self-diffraction ‘in one sense’ while remaining unified on another. This is what representation (metaphor, inference, transference, equivalence, etc) is ‘made of’. Tension across the gap. Electromagnetism is a good metaphor of how metaphor works on the public side of the universe.
” If it has no parts, one cannot transpose anything “in” it”
That would be true except that to parts, things, “in”, and ‘transpose’ already require sense to be conceivable. Part-whole relations depend on sense perspectives, not the other way around. Sense is the cradle of all discernments and capacities for discernment.
“But still, there must be some differences in the qualities of sense, ”
Differences in the qualities of sense is *all that sense is*. Thus even the most detailed oscilloscope pattern of a voice taken from a human eardrum vibrating contains very little of the sense of the audio experience of hearing the voice. The data pattern is the same, but the visual-mathematical sense of representation is a paltry sampling compared to the natively presented aural qualities of sense.
“So perhaps there is some kind of internal principle that one would use to distinguish one sense from another?”
Sense *is* the principle of experienced discernment. All possible discernment is sense. Sense is how we know that there is any differences at all.
“Each sense qualia has a different perspective on the world. Does that sound right?”
Yes, qualia presents Tzimtzum; the subdivision by timespace of the Absolute.
“Also, does sense have some kind of internal theater in which what it senses is displayed?”
That would be redundant. Sense is experience already. It’s like asking if colors also have colors.
“That is, I am not sure how I actually sense different things.”
“How” is a property of public representations. We look at an orange tree and ask how it grows from seeds, how its leaves photosynthesize, etc because we are experiencing it from an impersonal vantage point. From that view, we have panoramic spatial insight but no temporal understanding. The life of a tree must be inferred or assembled from time lapse photography. This gives a framework of ‘How’. Our own direct sense, however, has no how, only a why and a who. The what, where, how, are public, the who, when, and why are private.
“So for example, vision might be coded by vision sense, or, vision is de-coded into some universal sense code.”
It might be helpful here to distinguish optical phenomena (which is matter and energy based and public) from visual experience (which is sensory-motor and private). In synesthesia for example, some public phenomena, like the shape of a number, might have a different visual experience, or even an emotional, audio, or olfactory experience associated with it. This suggests that human experience is a complex meta-qualia but that rather than being assembled from a universal sense code, I suspect that they are ‘recovered’ as gestalt wholes from the Totality. Simpler organisms might very well be associated with a much less differentiated sense. An organism without eyes probably has all optical, thermal, chemical, conditions presented in a more unified visual-tactile-olfactory experience…just ‘feeling’ or ‘seeming’ or ‘nearly knowing’ as it discerns the difference between private and public with relatively little significance (compared to human multi-channel elaborations).
#29 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 2, 2013 - 7:56 pm
“Neither the Aristotelian nor the Taoist view successfully recognizes both matter and the experiencer of matter as on continuous physical presence.”
Although I am not trying to contest your point about what you are trying to do, I do mention that Aristotle recognizes 4 cause, two of which seem to satisfy your requirement, matter(material cause, and agent (efficient cause). Agents (the efficient causes) are private agents, not public agents.
Aristotle’s fourth cause, “final cause”, is the public aspect, the purposive aspect.
Matter is the “what”, the agent is the “who”.
The end (final cause) is the end of the process, both in the sense of the place where and when (“where” and “when”) it stops, and in the sense of what is finally aimed at.
#30 by multisenserealism on February 2, 2013 - 9:41 pm
“Matter is the “what”, the agent is the “who”.”
That agrees with my model, except that I go further to say that the what is what the who looks like from the outside i.e. across a spatio-temporal gap.
“The end (final cause) is the end of the process, both in the sense of the place where and when (“where” and “when”) it stops, and in the sense of what is finally aimed at.”
This maps somewhat to MR as Significance. Significance is the ‘living accumulation of sense’ on top of sense through time. It is goal-ness and realization; literally the source of realism through the multiple overlapping diffractions of sense gapped across timespace. Harmonics is a good example…melodic sequence and chords in parallel, themselves sequenced, repeated, varied, and recapitulated through time = music.
#31 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 3, 2013 - 3:31 pm
In an effort to further explore the qualities and properties of sense:
” I propose that sense has three modes, two of presentation (perception and participation), and one of representation. Presentation is sensory-motor experience, which becomes private through representation as impersonal matter-energy across spatio-temporal gaps.”
My experience with consciousness (sense), as I suggested in the experiment I proposed on jcs-online recently >http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/jcs-online/message/10836<, involves two different kinds of presentation, hence two kinds of perception and two kinds of presentation. Inner perception, being subjectively aware, also involves its own different kinds of perceiving, for example, dreaming and imagination.
I do mention that all these different states seem to have their own significances.
" This suggests that human experience is a complex meta-qualia but that rather than being assembled from a universal sense code, I suspect that they are ‘recovered’ as gestalt wholes from the Totality.
What would be the nature of sense qualia such that they have the capacity to recover complex "Gestalt wholes" of experience? How does sense "construct" private experience of a Gestalt, as there is no matter to construct them out of?
#32 by multisenserealism on February 3, 2013 - 4:30 pm
In your experiment you are talking about comparing two human sense channels (tactile sensation vs optical sensation). To feel your tongue or breath or toe is a tactile experience. To look at your surroundings is a visual experience of the optical states of the room.
If you closed your eyes and used your hands instead to feel the objects around the room while looking through a kaleidoscope, you could turn the experiment around such that the visual sense now might seem to carry the invitation for introspection while the tactile sense offers a grounded realism in a body-external world.
What I’m trying to say is that what you are talking about is the (amazing) properties of *human* experience, but what I am talking about is the minimum possible properties of *any* experience. While our human experience is very complex (*human* experience involves several integrated channels of presentation; the big five, plus kinesthetic-vestibular, chronoception, nociception, thermoception…really anything that we can focus on can potentially become a sense – humor, fashion, business acumen, absurdity, etc.) it can all be understood in simpler terms of a presentation. Whether it is a tactile tongue feeling or a visual experience of the room they are both afferent sensory presentations. They are experiences which you receive from the world outside of yourself.
In contrast, the capacity to take action within your sensory environments, to move your tongue or look around the room, or manipulate your own focus from one to the other…that is fundamentally different from afferent input, as it originates from within the self and projects outward as efferent motive power or will; participation. This ability to do and act is actually also a presentation – you are first a being who is doing, but there is a whole chicken-egg paradox there as the root ‘being’ is also the result of some more primitive ‘doing’. From the absolute POV, doing and being or motor participation and sensory perception are inseparable and precede the concept of discernment between fundamental and derived. They are both fundamental modalities of the same thing.
“What would be the nature of sense qualia such that they have the capacity to recover complex “Gestalt wholes” of experience? How does sense “construct” private experience of a Gestalt, as there is no matter to construct them out of?”
I have described the nature of sense qualia as trans-rational algebras, or apocatastatic gestalts. They are not constructed, they are re-membered. Since our human experience is carved out of a plenum of eternity (using a ‘scalpel of timespace’ to continue the metaphor) it works more like a spectrum works by splitting a beam of light. Just by introducing the gaps between all of what we are and all of what is, an interference pattern is experienced. It isn’t a holographic projection, it is is a holarchical participation. Our perception is direct, but what we perceive is an experience of being a person, not a failed model of a world “as it really is”. There is no “as it really is”, since the level of the absolute excludes timespace, which is the foundation of realism.
Without being a sensory participant within the universe, the universe would be like an instantaneous dream of eternity. The whole assumption of construction and matter ignores the subtractive nature of the gestalt and falls back on the opposite – bottom-up assemblies running from simple to complex. Gestalts are inherently as simple as they could possibly be. A witch. A dog. The forest. The associations are relatively instantaneous, but the longer you contemplate them, the richer the associations could become. The gestalt is a top-down singularity, a monad, archetype, or anti-molecule of significance. The al-gebra and apo-catastatic nature of top-down awareness (seeing images ‘through’ or in spite of granular divisions of pixels) means that we are returning a completed sensibility from beyond ourselves and beyond spacetime. It’s a glimmer of coherence from the Totality.
#33 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 3, 2013 - 4:52 pm
I am glad you brought my attention the the Kabbalistic concept “Tzimtzum.” Herein is reflected the problems I have had in your claim that sense is all there is, and that there is nothing that created sense, no God and no energy.
“The Tzimtzum…is a term used in the Lurianic Kabbalah teaching of Isaac Luria, to explain his new doctrine that God began the process of creation by “contracting” his infinite light in order to allow for a “conceptual space” in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist.”(wikipedia)
I don’t have a problem with this. It is a similar to a description I have utilized on jcs-online, in which God creates multiple reference points within by dividing Itself. Which is also similar to my claim that individual identities arose from the inside vitality of the inner universe (energy), of action acting within and upon itself. However, you have made the claim that sense is fundamental, i.e. no God and no action (no energy).
However, the above claim implies that God and light (energy) existed before sense. So for example, the following quote:
“Prior to Creation, there was only the infinite Or Ein Sof filling all existence. When it arose in G-d’s Will to create worlds and emanate the emanated…He contracted (in Hebrew “tzimtzum”) Himself in the point at the center, in the very center of His light. He restricted that light, distancing it to the sides surrounding the central point, so that there remained a void, a hollow empty space, away from the central point… After this tzimtzum… He drew down from the Or Ein Sof a single straight line [of light] from His light surrounding [the void] from above to below [into the void], and it chained down descending into that void…. In the space of that void He emanated, created, formed and made all the worlds. (Etz Chaim, Arizal, Heichal A”K, anaf 2)”(wiki)
That is, in the beginning All That Is was all, there was, and there was nothing else, including no sense.
“A commonly held [5] understanding in Kabbalah is that the concept of Tzimtzum contains a built-in paradox, requiring that God be simultaneously transcendent and immanent.”(wiki)
In have previously commented on this apparent paradox in which God or All That Is acted within and upon itself creating identities.
“On the one hand, if the “Infinite” did not restrict itself, then nothing could exist—everything would be overwhelmed by God’s totality.”(wiki)
There can be no experience by sense because there was nothing else to experience. Since there was nothing else, even sense qualia could not experience “something else”. Leibniz states this explicitly in his Principle of the Identity of Indiscernible (PII).
“Thus existence requires God’s transcendence, as above.” (wiki)
“On the other hand, God continuously maintains the existence of, and is thus not absent from, the created universe.” (wiki)
Yet, by your claims, it seems to me, God is so absent.
“The Divine life-force which brings all creatures into existence must constantly be present within them… were this life-force to forsake any created being for even one brief moment, it would revert to a state of utter nothingness, as before the creation…”.(wiki)
Here the existence of the Divine and life-force (energy) is explicitly asserted, without which there would be no sense.
“This understanding is supported by various biblical teachings: “You have made the heaven… the earth and all that is on it… and You give life to them all” (Nehemiah 9:6); “All the earth is filled with God’s Glory” (Numbers 14:21); “God’s Glory fills the world” (Isaiah 6:3). Creation therefore requires God’s immanence.”(wiki)
Yes. And it is also supported by mystical writings other than the Bible. Those sources, and my own experience form the foundations of the framework I have adopted, consciousness as aware-ized energy.
“Rabbi Nachman of Breslav discusses this inherent paradox as follows:
“ Only in the future will it be possible to understand the Tzimtzum that brought the ‘Empty Space’ into being, for we have to say of it two contradictory things…”(wiki)
That future has arrived.
“the Empty Space came about through the Tzimtzum, where, as it were, He ‘limited’ His Godliness and contracted it from there, and it is as though in that place there is no Godliness…”)wiki)
The absence of Godliness is only an illusion.
“the absolute truth is that Godliness must nevertheless be present there, for certainly nothing can exist without His giving it life. (Likkutei Moharan I, 64:1) ”(wiki)
The existence of the illusion does not detract from the actual presence of God in all things. That is, we are not separated from God, contrary to many Christian claims.
“This paradox is strengthened by reference to the closely related doctrine of divine simplicity, which holds that God is absolutely simple, containing no element of form or structure whatsoever.”(wiki)
Well, this resultant paradox sounds alot like your claims about “sense.”
“This gives rise to two difficulties. Firstly, according to this doctrine, it is impossible for God to shrink or expand (physically or metaphorically)—an obvious contradiction to the above.” (wiki)
Since God chose to divide Her/Himself, there is no actual expansion in any sense.
“Secondly, according to this doctrine, if God’s creative will is present, then He must be present in total—whereas the Tzimtzum, on the other hand, results in, and requires, a “partial Presence” as above.”(wiki)
Present in ‘parts”, not in total. We can say that God reasoned quite correctly that in order to experience Her/Himself, any portion of Her/Himself would necessarily have to be less than the whole, and that if IT simply divided ITself into portions, each portion, being less than the whole, could look back on the rest of Itself and experience other than IT’s whole self. (Leibniz’s PII applies here.)
“The paradox has an additional aspect, in that the Tzimtzum results in a perception of the world being imperfect despite God’s omniperfect Presence being everywhere. As a result, some Kabbalists saw the Tzimtzum as a cosmic illusion.”(wiki)
Such illusion of imperfection is intentional and resides in the mind/perception of the observer (the part), not in the Whole, God. Such apparent imperfection is called Divine Polarity, and serves as allowing for the capacity to feel emotion -love or fear. These are the two points -the Alpha and the Omega -which allows the system we call “relativity”. Without these two ideas, no other idea could exist. For, every human thought is based on either love or fear, and one always leads to the other.
#34 by multisenserealism on February 3, 2013 - 9:03 pm
“However, you have made the claim that sense is fundamental, i.e. no God and no action (no energy). ”
I’m not opposed to people thinking of the Absolute as God, but the name God carries with it a lot of baggage that I think detracts. The Absolute is both personal and impersonal, and neither personal nor impersonal. It is just the outermost frame of reference – the source of ontology. As the supreme perceptual inertial frame, it is the sense that contains all sense and the motive which animates all sense. To me it is redundant to insert an ‘energy’ concept there as the animation of experience is already included in the sensory-motor participation of the Totality. Where does the ‘energy’ come from?
What I like about the concept of Tzimtzum is that it uses the same reversal of the Big Bang that I propose: A Big Diffraction or Sole Entropy Well. Instead of a universe of pure nothingness suddenly giving birth to a singularity, I see a universe of boundaryless everythingness within which experiences are deferred and diffracted. I think my view improves on the Kabbalistic view in that it factors in the lack of timespace at the level of Ein Sof or singularity. Like the Big Bang, the idea is that there’s this infinite whatever which then does something to become something else, and that this is an event in time. I see a much more primitive state which precedes all forms of narrative evolution. Ein Sof is still as it was, is, and always will be. The Big Bang never happened as an event, and it is always happening. We should think of the singularity as something which defines the hub and the circumference of the wheel of time, not a fixed point on the wheel which marks a beginning of time. The Big Diffraction means awareness swallowing its tail, dropping inside of itself and losing, temporarily, identification with the Absolute.
“That is, in the beginning All That Is was all, there was, and there was nothing else, including no sense. ”
Where does it say that there was no sense? All That “Is” = sense. Sense is actually more primitive than what ‘is’ – sense is the capacity for something to ‘seem like’ it ‘is’. For an experience to acquire a sense of realism requires a triangulation of sense agreements (multisense).
“There can be no experience by sense because there was nothing else to experience. Since there was nothing else, even sense qualia could not experience “something else”. Leibniz states this explicitly in his Principle of the Identity of Indiscernible (PII).”
No, there is everything else to experience. You are forgetting that time is a posteriori to sense. We are the ones who have a restricted sense – our experience is dampened, carved out of the totality of experience. Think of a Styrofoam cup floating in the ocean with a small hole in it, or better yet, a cup made of ice. That thin spray of water in our cup is our lifetime filling up with experience. When the cup fills up or melts, there is no barrier anymore and the cup experience is returned to the Absolute (ocean). It’s tricky though because the metaphor of the cup seems like I’m talking about a body or mind, but the entire experience of the cup, the spraying and melting, its whole history through time… that it the cup I’m talking about. Even though the cup is existentially lost, it is essentially adding to richness of the oceanic experience.
If you want to understand the model I propose, you have to block out from your mind the assumption that there has ever been, or could have ever been anything but sense. You can’t say ‘there was only this’ or ‘there was only that’ because every word refers to a sensory experience: “there was”, “only”, “this”…this is all semantic modeling, but what I suggest is that by definition sense is pre-semantic because it is the raw capacity for any semantic condition to manifest within. Before you can even have sanity, you have to assume first sense.
“Yet, by your claims, it seems to me, God is so absent.”
I don’t see that there needs to be a God present in order for the universe to be boundaryless on an intentionally ultimate level of description. If you take time and space out of the universe, what I am saying that you get is the Absolute, just by definition. If consciousness of individuals arises out of the fractal-enfolded attenuation of sensory-motive participation (spacetime), then if that enfolded condition is relaxed, we should expect a return to everythingness. Think of a vinyl record. The Absolute is the whole record, spinning. Instead of just on needle playing the album, new needles are constantly being created and cutting new grooves even while reading other grooves. The needles get smaller and smaller, cutting entire lifetime of grooves super fast, in the space and time it took one of the larger needles to cut one centimeter. Ein Sof, strictly interpreted could be like the hole in the middle of the record, from which the wax and needles emerge.
“Here the existence of the Divine and life-force (energy) is explicitly asserted, without which there would be no sense. ”
That is where I think they have it wrong. They have misinterpreted, as do we in the Big Bang, a cosmogenesis from nothingness. I think this is an error that needs a Copernican-scale correction. Time is carved out of the Totality, not built from nothing. The idea of nothingness is a misconception, although a compelling one from inside of timespace. We depend on timespace for human quality awareness, but when we die, I think that only the human quality of our awareness is transcended. Once outside of timespace, there just isn’t anyplace for everything to hide – it is all present as simultaneous eternity.
“Yes. And it is also supported by mystical writings other than the Bible. Those sources, and my own experience form the foundations of the framework I have adopted, consciousness as aware-ized energy. ”
Glory is a sensory quality, is it not? What you conceive of as aware-ized energy I see as the reflection of human quality awareness upon itself. It’s a metaphor. There is no literal ‘energy’ in the universe. There is experience and experiences can include many different dynamic qualities – heat, light, warmth, love, glory, etc. They are charged (figuratively) with different kinds of significance due to their relation with the Absolute, like breadcrumb trails of sense leading back to itself. You have to ask yourself what you think energy is. What is it doing when it isn’t aware-ized. How and why does it become aware-ized. Why do you think that it can suddenly appear before sense does but sense can’t exist before it?
“The absence of Godliness is only an illusion.”
It’s an illusion, but it is also the sole source of realism. Pre-Tzimtzum and Post-Tzimtzum God I see as different modes of the Absolute, two different perspectives, of solitude seeking to project itself as its own companionship in multiplicity (entropy), and multiplicity seeking a return to solitude and salvation (solitropy).
I think that the assumptions of perfection and illusion are themselves an illusion. They are expectations about expectations which depend on an objective frame of reference. What is perfect at one moment may be an illusion the next.
#35 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 3, 2013 - 7:39 pm
At some point soon, I would like to step back so that we can list the different qualities and properties of sense.
“In your experiment you are talking about comparing two human sense channels (tactile sensation vs optical sensation). To feel your tongue or breath or toe is a tactile experience. To look at your surroundings is a visual experience of the optical states of the room.”
Yes. two different channels. We change channels, and that amounts to doing what, in terms of sense?
#36 by multisenserealism on February 3, 2013 - 9:21 pm
“Yes. two different channels. We change channels, and that amounts to doing what, in terms of sense?”
That amounts to using our personal will (efferent motor participation) to ‘attend to’ or ‘pay attention to’ one sub-personal aspect of our sensory experience (afferent perception) and let go of (relax, loosen) another.
There was some interesting etymological themes that I came across related to this. The word nerve has its roots as a term for sinew or tendon. Tendon, which shares the same roots as both tender and strong. There is a whole constellation of associated concepts which seem to radiate from there; Stretched tight, twisting, winding, holding, watching, waiting, tending – and then loose, lose, lax, lay, lag, slack. This would be the most likely candidate for the basic oscillation potentials of efferent participation – holding and releasing. This is what we are doing when switching channels: holding our attention to some sense experiences and releasing another. I would imagine that any living organism experiences a similar quality. Inorganic experiences are perhaps quite different, or maybe they are just so unfamiliar that we can’t see what’s going on.
#37 by Joseph McCard (really) on February 10, 2013 - 4:28 pm
Link here to the etymological origins of “loosen”. So, for example, “analysis” is formed from “ana-luo”
http://biblesuite.com/greek/3089.htm
The discussion here:
http://guidetoreality.blogspot.com/2011/03/russellian-monism-and.html
brings up the same issue as I ask about (msg#35) above, “At some point soon, I would like to step back so that we can list the different qualities and properties of sense.”
“In a recent post on the Brains blog, Richard Brown (referencing an online discussion he had with David Chalmers) said: “RM [Russellian Monism] is the view that the dispositional properties talked about by physics have as their categorical base phenomenal or protophenomenal properties.” While descriptions vary, the reference to dispositional and categorical properties is common. In his book, Ignorance and Imagination, Daniel Stoljar says the position is a combination of two theses. First: “…that physical theory tells us only about dispositional properties.” And: “The second thesis we need to consider is that the dispositional properties of physical objects do require categorical grounds; that is, for all dispositional properties, there must be a non-dispositional property… (p.110)”
Can you speak to how you characterize sense, so that I can understand your statements like, “using our personal will (efferent motor participation) to ‘attend to’ or ‘pay attention to’ one sub-personal aspect of our sensory experience (afferent perception) and let go of (relax, loosen) another.”
Are there qualities or aspects of sense that allow for the disposition of “letting go”, for example?
Besides “will”, you also mention “motive”. Sense, so far,is like a black box. Is that how you see it? Or, does sense have certain dispositional properties, phenomenal properties, categorical properties, and/or qualities that make its character of such as “will”, “motive”, explicit?
I remember you gave me a link to one of your pages that included a list of about 10 qualities, including, for example, “significance”, but I can’t find it. Did it include “will” and “motive”? Perhaps, as you read the Steve Esser blog about Russellian Monism, you would see what I was asking about. It may be that you have not developed your conception f sense beyond the so called Black Box level? It may be that sense does not go any further down-the-rabbit-hole, as they say.
#38 by multisenserealism on February 11, 2013 - 1:51 am
“Are there qualities or aspects of sense that allow for the disposition of “letting go”, for example?”
Yes, that’s motive. Motive is the presence of opportunity to project a power to contract, hold, and attract/repel or dilate, release, and return to inertia.
“Besides “will”, you also mention “motive”. ”
Same thing. Will implies a human psychological agency while motive is intended to be more universal, but otherwise they refer to the same active capacity – to you, ‘energy’, but to me, energy misconstrues this feeling and intention as a pseudo-substance which occupies space rather than a property of private experience pushing into public reflection.
“Sense, so far,is like a black box. Is that how you see it?”
No, no, just the opposite. Sense is everythingness. It is the white unbox from which all subordinate partitions are partially diffracted.
“Or, does sense have certain dispositional properties”
Yes, it has all dispositional properties. It is from these dispositional properties which the antithesis of sense is contrasted: positional properties, i.e. persistent spatiotemporal relations.
““significance”, but I can’t find it. Did it include “will” and “motive”?”
maybe this page? http://multisenserealism.com/9-sense-motive/
Significance is like the equivalent of density of sense through time (repeating experiences, intensity of experiences). Will or Motive is just sense in the active mode. Sense can be thought of as being/doing and motive is doing/being.
I’m not sure where you get the impression that MR models sense as a black box. To the contrary, it is simply the capacity to experience presence and re-present presence.